Discussion Post: Simple Math

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

Title: Simple Math
Author: foxxcub
Rating: Explicit
Warnings: Underage
Author's Summary: "So," Eames says slowly, leaning back against the school wall as he idly taps his cigarette. "We've got a problem here."
or, The Fake Boyfriend High School AU

For this week's discussion, we have this lovely AU that not only incorporates all the emotions and hormones of high school, but also throws in a fake relationship, enemies to lovers, boys being stupid and in love, and a bunch more of your favourite things. I've left some discussion points, but feel free to add your own questions and/or observations and/or general flailing below.

Comments

personalities

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

What aspects of Arthur and Eames’ personalities in this fic are similar to canon!Arthur and Eames (or to your headcanon of them)? What aspects are different? Do you think these differences are effective in showing how young Arthur and Eames are?

RE: personalities

[kate-the-reader.livejournal.com]

Arthur's stubborn self-denial and lack of personal insight made him very young, for me.
Eames's contrasting openness (but refusal to come right out and JUST SAY how he feels) played nicely off canon Eames I thought.

My heart broke a little for him in the scene where he kisses Arthur on the field and says to him "that is how I kiss someone I adore" and Arthur still cannot allow himself to get it!

Re: personalities

[kedgeree11.livejournal.com]

Yes, Arthur seemed very young in his behavior, very teen angsty and defensive in the way he shut down his feelings and acted out with hostility. You could see the seeds of canon Arthur in something like that, though...where shutting down becomes reserve and defensive hostility becomes frowny faces!

One of the things that I thought was VERY high school about this whole fic was the timeline, which I thought was hilarious...like OH MY GOD, we've been going out for TWO WEEKS now, that's FOREVER.

Re: personalities

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I cannot believe how much twisting himself into knots Arthur does to refuse to see how Eames feels about him. There are SO many hints. Eames is SO much nicer to him than he has to be, at almost every turn. I love this fic, but if I have a problem with it, it's probably that it takes Arthur SO LONG to get his act together. Of course, he's a kid, so that makes some sense, but "lack of personal insight" really puts the finger on the most irritating part. Like, okay, he can't believe Eames loves him, but he also refuses to understand how much *he* loves *Eames.* He's in such serious denial about it, and I feel like, coming off the Domesticverse, it's a strikingly different sort of denial. Like, Arthur's denial in the Domesticverse is kind of cluelessness, genuinely, instead of the knot-tying justifications in this fic.

Re: personalities

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

Hm, I would think that canon Eames pretends he's an open book but is actually very guarded? Like both canon Eames and this Eames are obviously good actors, but by the movie, Eames is slicker and putting up an act all of the time (in my headcanon, at least). It makes me wonder if this high school Eames would ever grow up to be like movie Eames?

And that scene! Eames just laying it all out there and asking Arthur to stay with him for another week, I just. ARTHUR.

Re: personalities

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

This is a really interesting question, because, while they do seem very Arthur and Eames, you're right that there a lot of traits that aren't as we see in canon. Like, Arthur isn't a sharp dresser (yet). I also don't think we get a sense of the blind loyalty that can frequently characterize Arthur in other fics. And Eames doesn't seem as flirty as he is in most other fics. I'm not sure Eames calls him a single pet name all fic? Does he? I didn't notice. Instead he seems to spend much more time antagonizing Arthur, and that happens in canon, too, but it usually seems to be antagonizing by flirting with him too much. But I like how Arthur seems just as prickly as I always think of him being, covering up all that emotion, and I like how Eames is really an actor.

To me what makes them seem so incredibly young is how very...stupid? they are. Like, it takes them FOREVER to sort things out, even with people pointing it out for them all along the way. And their attitude toward sex also seems very young to me. Like, I've read plenty of fics where Arthur and Eames are just like, "We don't like each other, but we can shag," and of course it's more than that, but in this fic it really does feel like they're *so* confused about everything, including the sex, in a way that feels very young to me.

Re: personalities

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

You're right that Arthur doesn't have his duty-bound loyalty here, and I can't really imagine him putting someone's needs above his own, at this point, although he does make a big thing about not going back on his word. (It also makes me wonder what role Cobb would have played in this AU. I always thought it was interesting that Ariadne was the only one who made the jump from the movie into this fic.)

And Eames does seem more serious in this fic (at least while he's with Arthur, and that's probably because he feels like he has to defend himself from Arthur all the time.) (and a quick search says that Eames doesn't call Arthur "darling", except mockingly saying "darling little Arthur", but Eames' mom calls Arthur "darling", as do Eames' friends on the bus in true high school fashion: "Arthur, darling! I miss your cock!") (UPDATE: Eames calls Arthur "babe", which is... different. A little strange to me, to be honest.)

And what seemed young to me about their attitude to sex was that throughout like every interaction, they acted like there were only two options of action: fighting or sex. Which was also hilarious.

Re: personalities

[msbrightsidesh.livejournal.com]

What felt very young to me concerning Eames was the way he was depicted with his family. Arthur and his mum have a different relationship, I think the death of Arthur's dad brought them closer together and made Arthur grow up in some ways (certainly not in others). The way Eames and his family are described just rung very true to me, slightly chaotic with lots of love. Especially the way Eames is with Rafe, constantly teasing each other, being super annyoed by the smallest things the other does...I loved that, because Eames doesn't get to have a happy family all that often, and I think usually it's Arthur who has siblings :)

Re: personalities

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

Oh I loved Eames with his family! There really aren't as many happy, loving families in fic, and we almost never see Eames with a happy sibling relationship. And even Eames' extended family is lovely and teasing. And it does make Eames feel young, especially when even his younger brother and cousin are comfortable teasing him.

descriptions

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

In this fic, there are many descriptions of Arthur and Eames’ thoughts and physical actions as well as a few dreams that reveal to the reader how they truly feel about each other. Does the author use them effectively? Was there any particular description that stood out to you as being particularly telling? Did these elements make it harder for you to buy Arthur or Eames’ constant denial?

Re: descriptions

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I *love* Arthur's running dream about Eames. It's one of my favorites.

I will say that the descriptions of Eames--the looks in his eyes, the bitterness in his tone, the way he goes soft or hard depending on what Arthur does--seemed to make it SO obvious to me that Eames adored Arthur, and I was like, "ARTHUR, OPEN YOUR EYES, CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT THIS IS ABOUT." But then I thought how Arthur is very young, etc., etc.

I loved when Eames said that Arthur runs away from things, and while that's a pretty obvious metaphor, maybe, I do wish that had been discussed more, because Arthur spends most of this fic running very hard, and even when they have their heart-to-heart I feel like Arthur never really apologizes for that, or really acknowledges that, maybe?

I love how important the kisses were, though. Describing kisses is hard and these were so good. The description of the photo where they're kissing really got to me, too.

Arthur's family

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

Arthur is shown to have complicated relationships with his father and grandparents. How did these relationships contribute to his character and to his relationship with Eames?

Re: Arthur's family

[kedgeree11.livejournal.com]

I didn't have anything to say about this until I just typed "defensive" above and I think that's something he got from those relationships--being on the defensive to protect himself from disapproval/lack of approval. So he assumes he's flawed or unworthy and that's the way everyone sees him.

running

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

In chapter 13, Eames brings up Arthur’s love of running cross-country as a reflection of how he runs from his problems. Did you think that this conclusion was justified? Could a similar conclusion be drawn from Eames’ love of theatre?

Re: running

[kedgeree11.livejournal.com]

Eames seems to be the opposite of Arthur in this, in that his love of theatre is more the *real* him than the jock--something he's headed toward rather than away from.

Re: running

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I mentioned this up above, that I do think Arthur spends a lot of time running. He's got a lot of the facts he needs right in front of his face, and he just...runs from them. I wish that had been discussed more, I wish Arthur had thought about it more, I wish there had been some kind of tie-in with his injury forcing him to stop running.

It's interesting, because Arthur seems to think that Eames's ability to act is the reason why he can't trust Eames's feelings for him, but I think he gets that wrong, that Eames actually isn't acting, that when Eames is "acting" he's most on display.

Re: running

[involuntaryorng.livejournal.com]

Side question -- do you guys think Running!Arthur is fanon at this point? I know he also runs in "Pet" (insert requisite flailing here) and possibly the one where Eames is his gymnastics instructor? Maybe it's only teenaged Arthur who does a lot of running. Do you think it's just physical build or something about his canon personality that makes running seem like a likely hobby?

Arthur's mom

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

How was Arthur’s mother finally able to shake Arthur out of his denial? Why were her tactics more successful than Ariadne’s, or even Eames’?

Re: Arthur's mom

[kedgeree11.livejournal.com]

I'm actually not sure, so I'm curious to hear what other people might see that I don't! My best guess it that she points out how things might have looked from Eames's perspective, how he might have been scared and intimidated himself. And then follows up with the comment about Arthur's father, and herself, and about how people just don't always get it right, but they're trying and it doesn't mean they don't care.

Re: Arthur's mom

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I mentioned this up above, and I think this is the key, that his mother gives him a reason that he would be missing these things from Eames and Ariadne. Like, Ariadne is all about, "oh, yeah, you guys are perfect together!" and it's easy to be like, "Ariadne doesn't know, she's being ridiculous," etc. And I think it's easy for Arthur to be like, "Eames has everything all wrong," etc. But when his mother is like, "You know, YOU explain to me why it's impossible that this nice boy could like you," I think it kind of gives him pause. Like, first, it's his mother talking to him (and mothers always carry more weight). And, second, *he's* the one who has to justify his view, instead of just scathingly dismissing everybody else's view, and even though he's been justifying it internally all along, I think maybe he starts to see how ridiculous he's been about it when he has to say it out loud.

Also, his mother has the best idea of his relationship with his father and what it might have done to him. Ariadne doesn't seem to know much about that, and when Eames gets it right--after the fight with the grandfather--it's one of the closest moments of their fake relationship, and I feel like they're so close to a breakthrough there. I feel like Arthur doesn't have to admit that his father messed him up there; his mother admits it for him and absolves him.

high school

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

This fic includes some elements of popular high school depictions (drinking parties, an emphasis on sports), while abandoning other typical elements (bullying, homophobia). Did you think the author did a good job of depicting a high school environment in this story? Was there any part of it that seemed improbable or surprising? Was it anything like your own high school experience?

RE: high school

[kate-the-reader.livejournal.com]

One of the things I liked most about this story was the fantasy element of a high school where being gay is totally ordinary.
It falls into the "write the world you want to live in" style and I love that. The story is about them as people, and just ignoring all the potential gay angst is lovely.

Re: high school

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I was actually really surprised that Arthur seemed to be decently popular. People recognized him, knew who he was, welcomed him to parties, and he didn't think it was any big thing to be at a party, he wasn't some kind of social outcast. I feel like other high school AUs (college AUs, even other AUs) isolate him a little bit more, but I liked how he wasn't angsted out over his social status, really (although that might have justified his skepticism over Eames's feelings for him a little bit more).

I thought the trig thing was a little unrealistic, but I guess that's just me. But I was like, "His trig class has a teacher's assistant? Who would hand out the assignments early? What?" And, also, they really spent a lot of time just hanging out at school. I didn't spend so much time hanging out. But sometimes these are things you have to fudge when you're doing a high school AU.

Ariadne's Crush

[okaykatie.livejournal.com]

Ariadne has a "hopeless crush" on her debate partner. Why do we never hear about this again? Is it Yusuf? Is it Mal? Why is it hopeless, and why don't I get any resolution about it? D:

Re: Ariadne's Crush

[flosculatory.livejournal.com]

Definitely Mal as the debate partner, hopeless because Ariadne assumes Mal is super straight because she's dating Dom, who was like the coolest guy in school and the star of the debate team but has since graduated and is now living a ~glamorous~ college life. But then eventually, Mal invites Ariadne to one of Dom's college parties (I'm going to be honest right now, I'm not super sold on Dom being cool and a partier as opposed to a bookish nerd but anyway) and Ariadne actually gets to know Dom, her romantic rival, and wants to hate him, but she's actually pretty into it and they all end up back at one of their houses, just drunkenly chatting and cuddling all night, and when they wake up in the morning, Ariadne's kind of freaked but Mal just pets her hair and tells her to go back to bed and then Dom gets them all coffee and they all live happily ever after.

(Ariadne eventually insists that Arthur meet Dom properly, being her new boyfriend and all, and Arthur initially can't wrap his head around the relationship and thinks Dom's kind of odd, but Dom ends up with Arthur's phone number anyway and thinks they're best friends, constantly texting Arthur with questions about the type of stuff Ariadne likes and kidnapping him to go on gift-buying runs for his girlfriends at a greater frequency than Arthur thinks is strictly necessary. Arthur is just kind of bemused by it all, but ends up Dom's go-to man anyway, while Eames laughs from the sidelines and tells Arthur he's a shit boyfriend for not getting him as many presents as Dom gets for his girls, and makes Arthur promise that if they can't beat the threesome in presents, they'll beat them in quantity of orgasms.)